[Kolab-devel] something is not good about kolab

Thu Jun 28 16:17:17 CEST 2007

On 6/28/07, Ingo Steuwer <steuwer at univention.de> wrote:
>
> Am Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2007 15:07 schrieb Alain Spineux:
> > On 6/28/07, Joon Radley <joon at radleys.co.za> wrote:
> > > Hi Alain,
> > >
> > > > Yes, he will choose the shiny at first, but if he get problems,
> > > > fall back the less less shiny, but working one.
> > >
> > > But why be the fourth or fifth choice when such a small change can
> make
> > > you
> > > the first choice?
> >
> > Not sure its small !
>
> A "shiny" design and a good UI is a rather big task, and HTML doesn't make
> it
> easier. But I think Joon is right, the first impression is often decisive.
> And if the decision was made, upcoming problems are fixed with ugly
> workarounds instead of merging your data to another new platform.

This is not the way I want for free software, I thing RMS should approve :-)
But free is free, and you are free do do it like you want.

> > Are you speaking about fellows that will configure KOLAB, and maybe
> > > troubleshoot it
> > >
> > > > when problems occur ? Yes you are :-)
> > > > Maybe your are mistaking knowledge and easiness!
> > > > Cars are safer and easier to drive but you still need a driving
> > > > licence. IT manager is responsible for tens of peoples, he need
> > > > knowledge too! But we can make is life easier.
> > >
> > > Huh? The learning curve on maintaining a running system is much lower
> > > that install a new OS and trying to compile software for the first
> time
> > > in your life. Most system administrator that have never worked on
> Linux
> > > or compiled
> > > software in their careers. Scripting is about the only source code
> they
> > > have
> > > ever seen.
> >
> > Take that like an exam to be able to drive a linux server!
> > Maintaining means to solve problems too!
>
> Sure. But your argumentation leads to a point where kolab will only be
> used by
> kolab-developers.

No, just take the right guy to do the right thing.
IT management is not a game, some company depend on IT.
IT manager is a career.
I'm not speaking about someone installing google hearth on his laptop,
but someone responsible for 50 workers that must find quickly the good
solution when something goes wrong.

> We are not helping peoples when making them thing they are able to do such
> > thing (drive a linux server
> > or a kolab mail system).
> > Free software has no commercial goals and dont need to mislead people.
>
> hmh, I know several people following commercial goals with free software.
> I
> always thought kolab and the kk are good examples...

Yes, you are right.
I hope Free software will keep some ethic :-)

> BUT, I repeat, I'm not against make the manager live easier or make him
> > more smart "forcing"
> > him read some INSALL guide, FAQ, HOWTO ....
> >
> >
> > The products and product descriptions I have seen will install a Linux
> OS,
> >
> > > install Kolab from binary and help you with a GUI configuration of the
> > > Kolab
> > > server. This would bring Kolab inline with top commercial product.
> > >
> > > > download, compile,  bootstrap, login !
> > > > This is not difficult !
> > > > Maybe Installing tutorials should help, messages like "The
> installation
> > >
> > > can be long 2 or
> > >
> > > > 4H depending your hardware" or
> > > > "The installation is successful, you cans now start bootstrap" ...
> > >
> > > Yes it does sound simple, but it does not reflect reality. With the
> > > 2.1RC1 I took a machine installed FC6 and ran obmtool after about 8
> hours
> > > of frustration I finally contacted the list and I was pointed to the
> > > wiki. I have been working with Linux and developing software on it
> since
> > > 1995 and I
> > > was frustrated, image someone brand new to Linux and Kolab. Most other
> > > solutions just requires a 15-45 minute install, no compiling.
> > >
> > > And it not just me, I have supported thousands of people since 2003
> with
> > > the
> > > Kolab and the "difficult" install remains he highest reason for people
> > > not picking Kolab as a solution.
> >
> > One more, we can not let people drive without licence. They need the
> > knowledge or know someone that
> > have them, in both case they have also the solution to install it
> (themself
> > or by the guy that know).
> >
> > I was more afraid when installing my first exchange than when installing
> my
> > first zymbra.
> > Probably because I read some doc on how to install Zimbra first.
>
> So should kolab learn from zimbra (is it easier to install, I never tried
> myself?) or from exchange?

No.
The ajax web interface was one of the best.
They rely on a self made imap server.

Exchange offers you much help during installation, on what is missing on
> your
> server and what needs to be done next. Installation takes a long time
> because
> there are many things you are pointed at, but it looks like the procedure
> always tells you what's next. Not a maybe outdated external documentation.

Sorry, I never read  M$ messages (say not all of them), I thing lot of
people do the same.
If so why install M$ stuff :-)

Regards
> Ingo Steuwer
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > > Joon Radley
> > > Radley Network Technologies CC
> > > Cell: +27 (0)83 368 8557
> > > Fax: +27 (0)12 998 4346
> > > E-mail: joon at radleys.co.za
> > > Web: www.toltec.co.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Kolab-devel mailing list
> > > Kolab-devel at kolab.org
> > > https://kolab.org/mailman/listinfo/kolab-devel
>
> --
> Ingo Steuwer           Projektmanagement        steuwer at univention.de
> Univention GmbH        Linux for your Business  fon: +49 421 22 232-43
> Mary-Somerville-Str.1  28359 Bremen             fax: +49 421 22 232-99
>                        http://www.univention.de
>

-- 
--
Alain Spineux
aspineux gmail com
May the sources be with you
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