[Kolab-devel] something is not good about kolab

[Ingo Steuwer]

Am Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2007 15:07 schrieb Alain Spineux:
> On 6/28/07, Joon Radley <joon at radleys.co.za> wrote:
> > Hi Alain,
> >
> > > Yes, he will choose the shiny at first, but if he get problems,
> > > fall back the less less shiny, but working one.
> >
> > But why be the fourth or fifth choice when such a small change can make
> > you
> > the first choice?
>
> Not sure its small !

A "shiny" design and a good UI is a rather big task, and HTML doesn't make it 
easier. But I think Joon is right, the first impression is often decisive. 
And if the decision was made, upcoming problems are fixed with ugly 
workarounds instead of merging your data to another new platform.

> > Are you speaking about fellows that will configure KOLAB, and maybe
> > troubleshoot it
> >
> > > when problems occur ? Yes you are :-)
> > > Maybe your are mistaking knowledge and easiness!
> > > Cars are safer and easier to drive but you still need a driving
> > > licence. IT manager is responsible for tens of peoples, he need
> > > knowledge too! But we can make is life easier.
> >
> > Huh? The learning curve on maintaining a running system is much lower
> > that install a new OS and trying to compile software for the first time
> > in your life. Most system administrator that have never worked on Linux
> > or compiled
> > software in their careers. Scripting is about the only source code they
> > have
> > ever seen.
>
> Take that like an exam to be able to drive a linux server!
> Maintaining means to solve problems too!

Sure. But your argumentation leads to a point where kolab will only be used by 
kolab-developers.

> We are not helping peoples when making them thing they are able to do such
> thing (drive a linux server
> or a kolab mail system).
> Free software has no commercial goals and dont need to mislead people.

hmh, I know several people following commercial goals with free software. I 
always thought kolab and the kk are good examples...

> BUT, I repeat, I'm not against make the manager live easier or make him
> more smart "forcing"
> him read some INSALL guide, FAQ, HOWTO ....
>
>
> The products and product descriptions I have seen will install a Linux OS,
>
> > install Kolab from binary and help you with a GUI configuration of the
> > Kolab
> > server. This would bring Kolab inline with top commercial product.
> >
> > > download, compile,  bootstrap, login !
> > > This is not difficult !
> > > Maybe Installing tutorials should help, messages like "The installation
> >
> > can be long 2 or
> >
> > > 4H depending your hardware" or
> > > "The installation is successful, you cans now start bootstrap" ...
> >
> > Yes it does sound simple, but it does not reflect reality. With the
> > 2.1RC1 I took a machine installed FC6 and ran obmtool after about 8 hours
> > of frustration I finally contacted the list and I was pointed to the
> > wiki. I have been working with Linux and developing software on it since
> > 1995 and I
> > was frustrated, image someone brand new to Linux and Kolab. Most other
> > solutions just requires a 15-45 minute install, no compiling.
> >
> > And it not just me, I have supported thousands of people since 2003 with
> > the
> > Kolab and the "difficult" install remains he highest reason for people
> > not picking Kolab as a solution.
>
> One more, we can not let people drive without licence. They need the
> knowledge or know someone that
> have them, in both case they have also the solution to install it (themself
> or by the guy that know).
>
> I was more afraid when installing my first exchange than when installing my
> first zymbra.
> Probably because I read some doc on how to install Zimbra first.

So should kolab learn from zimbra (is it easier to install, I never tried 
myself?) or from exchange? 

Exchange offers you much help during installation, on what is missing on your 
server and what needs to be done next. Installation takes a long time because 
there are many things you are pointed at, but it looks like the procedure 
always tells you what's next. Not a maybe outdated external documentation.

Regards
Ingo Steuwer

> Regards
>
> Best Regards
>
> > Joon Radley
> > Radley Network Technologies CC
> > Cell: +27 (0)83 368 8557
> > Fax: +27 (0)12 998 4346
> > E-mail: joon at radleys.co.za
> > Web: www.toltec.co.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Kolab-devel mailing list
> > Kolab-devel at kolab.org
> > https://kolab.org/mailman/listinfo/kolab-devel

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Ingo Steuwer           Projektmanagement        steuwer at univention.de
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